Other Ingredients: Hypromellose, Stearic Acid, Magnesium Stearate, Silicon Dioxide, Microcrystalline Cellulose, Gelatin.
Msten Extreme Mass Builder by Assault Labs
Searching for the absolute best bulking PH on the market today?
Need extreme size gains as soon as possible?
Are you ready to dramatically change your physique quickly?
Get ready for the #1 rated bulking prohormone on the market, Msten Extreme Mass Builder, a prohormone that truly delivers!
Msten Extreme Mass Builder is specifically engineered as a mass and strength building agent to break through plateaus and achieve hardcore results.
Msten has over 75 Reviews, so read away and see why Msten is Ranked in first place when it comes to MASS GAINS!
Users have reported:
-Increases in Mass
-Increases in Strength
-Increases in Muscle Density
-Increases in Definition
-Increases in Muscle Endurance
-Alpha Male Mentality
People are looking for an alternative to M-drol and all other superdrol products that were banned in 2012. Msten is here to save the day. When dosed properly results have shown to mimic SD products. The problem with all sd products beside the harshness on the liver is the conversion to estrogen. Msten Extreme Mass Builder has no conversion to estrogen and provides its users with solid size and mass gains.
This is a solid product with solid results. Get it now!
About the Ingedients of Msten Extreme Mass Builder:
Msten Extreme Mass Builder's main ingredient is Methylstenbolone. Structurally, Methylstenbolone is similar to superdr0l but they differ in the type of result obtained. SD was known for really packing on size, but there was a loss of definition due to water retention. So for most users, visually you would see size gains, but there was more of a "water bloat" look.
What makes Methylstenbolone different, and in many users' eyes, better, is that it is a dry bulker, which means you can pack on the gains and lose little to no definition! Many people will actually see increased definition!
Methylstenbolone is derived from DHT. So what does that mean for you? It means that this product cannot and will not convert to estrogen. We still always suggest that you keep an estrogen blocker on hand, as just because methylstenbolone does not convert to estrogen, doesn't mean that your body will not produce excess estrogen to keep your body's testosterone to estrogen ratio in check. Your best options for an estrogen blocker are going to be Estro Strike by Assault Labs or Estrogenex by Hi-Tech Pharmaceuticals.
Methylstenbolone is methylated, so it will be harsh on your liver and organs. With that being the case it almost mandatory to take an on cycle support. Blockade by Assault Labs is the perfect companion to Msten Extreme Mass Builder.
Make sure to follow up you cycle with a 30 day Post Cycle Therapy. Post Cycle 3X by Vital Labs is your best option. Many people also like the stack their PCT with a Test Booster, although this is not necessary as all post cycle products have test boosting ingredients, it never hurts to add some D-Aspartic Acid in for ultimate test boosting. If you choose to stack with a test booster, DAA Max by Vital Labs is your best value option.
Make sure once you have completed your post cycle that you take an additional 30 days off before starting another prohormone cycle. Feel free to Contact the Pros at StrongSupplementShop.com if you need support with your cycle or figuring out what is next for you!
Advance users tend to stack Msten with a secondary compound. Use the "Make it a Stack" option above to add the best ph so you can maximize your cycle and gains. You can add:
Halocor: A halodrol PH that provides incredible strength gains as well as lean muscle gains.
Epidex: Reduce Estrogen and Increase your muscle gains.
Maximum-LMG: A serious Mass gainer. By Adding this ph you can expect to bulk up significantly.
Power-MAG: Hard dense muscle gains make this a great choice.
The choice is yours Make it a Stack & Build your Perfect Physique!
Dosing Protocol for Msten Extreme Mass Builder:
Beginner to Intermediate:
For Best Results take 3 Capsules Daily for 30 days, with on cycle support & follow with Post Cycle Therapy.
Advanced/ Experienced Users:
3 to 4 Caps daily for 30-45 days.
Use with Blockade On Cycle and Finish with Proper Post Cycle Therapy.
Msten Extreme Mass Builder Reviews:
Just like old mdrol Review by Manlyman
Great Product take with Blockade and Formexx Black Review by J...
To Read 50+ Reviews on Msten Extreme Mass Builder Scroll Down
KEEP OUT OF REACH OF CHILDREN. This product is intended for adult men only. Not for use by women or anyone under 21 years of age. If you have or have had a medical condition or are currently using prescription drugs consult your physician before using this product. Avoid this product if you have any previous history of medical dysfunction or disease, including but not limited to high blood pressure, heart, kidney, thyroid, or psychiatric disease, difficulty urinating, prostate enlargement, anxiety, depression, seizure disorder, or have had a stroke. Do not combine this product with other medications or supplements. Do not exceed suggested servings. Consult your health care professional before use if you are taking any prescription drugs. Consult your health care practitioner before beginning any weight loss program.
Do not exceed 6 weeks of continuous use of this product. In case of accidental overdose, contact a health care professional or poison control center immediately.
As with any dietary supplement, we recommend that you consult a physician before use
These statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease.
BLOCKADE by Assault Labs
REHAB PCT by LGI
WICKED PCT by AAR
DAA Max by Vital Labs
Lean Xtreme by Driven Sports
Here are the links:
DERMACRINE by BPS
VIRON by Black Lion Research
Other Ingredients: Hypromellose, Stearic Acid, Magnesium Stearate, Silicon Dioxide, Microcrystalline Cellulose, Gelatin.
- Did a 7 week cycle at 12/16/16/16/20/20 and week 7 started slowly lowering the mg from 5 (20mg) pills down to 1 (4mg) pill on final day. Im 5'10 and started at 180 lbs and ended at 198lbs. Ive taken PH before so my body is def. use to PH. I bought this product since SD was banned and this was suppose to be a clone to SD. It was not as strong as SD but def. close enough to it. Got a lot bigger and def. stronger. I was repping 315 6xs no spot and went up to 345 for 3xs no spot. Did not want to go higher in weight to avoid injuries. Strength went up in all other workouts and muscle groups... I had no side affects besides losing my libido. Did not start losing it until about week 4 and 5. ive been off msten for about 5 weeks already and still repping 315 4xs. did lose a little strength and weight. went down to 193lbs.
Msten/BCAA/glutamine/fish oil/multi vit/glucosamine/cycle assist/arginine/Estro blocker (estogenix)/ Whey protein /weight gainer (serious mass).
PCT (competitive edge labs)/ bcaa/glutamine/fish oil/ multi vit/arginine / d/apartic acid/ whey protein
about about a month got my libido back :) lol
- This was my first ph so I did not know what to expect exactly. I just knew I was going to make gains. I used up the entire bottle and was on cycle for 4 weeks. Immediately after, I went into PCT for 4 weeks as well. I took Blockade for on cycle support, Estro Strike to control my estrogen, and Post Cycle 3x and DAA Max for my PCT.
So this is my experience with the products. I dosed the ph evenly throughout the day, took my on cycle support twice a day, and estro strike to control the bloating, due to my elevated estrogen, twice a day as well. The first week, especially the first day, I noticed a massive increase in strength as well as in size. I was much more fuller and denser. I didn't think I would see real results until about halfway through the cycle but nope, I was wrong.
My appetite was insane, my libido was off the charts, and I just kept growing and growing, as well as getting stronger. I did cardio 4x a week, and I found myself out of breath much quicker than usual. No doubt this was because of the rapid weight gain. After a while, during the day, I slowly started getting a bit bloated but it was very very small bloat, and later, when I took the second dose of Estro Strike, all was good again.
During the second week, lethargy hit me really hard. I didn't want to do anything. At the gym, I was completely fine; I was a beast. But a little after I left, all I wanted to do was sit around at home and do nothing but watch movies or play video games because I felt incredibly tired, which I new I wasn't, but my natural test obviously went down, and I didn't have energy at all. It actually really pissed me off haha. All throughout the first two weeks my appetite and libido were incredibly high. Around the third week, the lethargy went away, and I was feeling energized again. The third and fourth weeks were when I saw the best gains out of the whole cycle. I just blew up. Everything was fitting tighter as it was. Now I just rapidly got even bigger and bigger. I knew I wasn't getting fat because I was actually getting leaner and dropped a little bit of body fat. I lost about 2%, not much, but it was noticeable and made a difference. However, during the last two weeks my appetite dropped like crazy. It didn't affect me much though. I knew I had to eat so I just ate even if I wasn't hungry, like I am every 2 hours. I do count macros so I wasn't just pigging out all the time. Oh, also during the first two weeks, aggression went up. I got mad at little things and felt angry a lot of the time. The third and fourth weeks were when this really increased. I just wanted to punch everything. If some guy randomly looked at me, I wanted to beat the crap out of him for no reason. I was just really angry all the time pretty much. Also, in the last two weeks my libido completely died. It was just gone.
Now is the end part, PCT. By the end of my cycle I had put on 16 pounds. Pretty much in every exercise I had to add about double the weight. Some more, some less. I usually stick to around 8 -12 reps in case anybody is wondering. Give or take a few depending on my mood. I used Post Cycle 3x and DAA Max for my PCT. The day after I got off, I was extremely bloated. When I took my PCT caps, the bloating went away and I was fine. After a while, it came back just a bit and after I took my second PCT dose, it went away again. I figured this is all the estrogen and hormone imbalances in my body so my body is going a bit crazy right now. Most of the time I was not hungry at all, but I forced myself to eat because I knew I had to. Also, the first two weeks of PCT I didn't go #2 as often. Pretty much was constipated for about a week and a half. Figured this is because of the hormone imbalances as well. I just dealt with it all and continued my PCT for 4 weeks. I kept thinking I was shrinking day by day so I constantly asked my friends to be honest with me and tell me how I looked because my mind couldn't tell me the truth. I was obviously having some issues coping with getting off cycle. After I was done with PCT, I only lost 3 lbs. My strength stayed pretty much the same. For something I could do 10 reps on cycle, I could probably do 8 reps or so off.
So as you can see, I kept most of my gains, pretty much all of it. I gained an inch on my arms and about an inch and a half on my chest. I know my legs got even bigger because most of my pants don't fit in the thigh area now. I lost .3 on my arms and about 1/4th of an inch on my chest. All in all, I say I kept most of it, which was my goal. I knew I would lose some, actually, I thought I would lose a decent portion of it, but it turns out I lost very little. I give this product 5 stars for sure. Id definitely buy this again. For those of you who are trying to decide whether to get it or not. Get it! You will not regret it.
- Mass gains, Strength gains
- more than 6 month(s)
- I Used MSTEN as my first Ph ever so this is my first experience of anything unnatty
I started my cycle at approx 75.5kg very lean and feeling quiet small after losing a few kilos as i was on holiday and im an ecto was a horrible feeling to lose all those precious gains
msten was used with a bulk a fairly large one at that
I stacked msten with Blockade for liver support, and my usual supps BCAAS, Optimen multis, fishoil, zma, green tea extract, powdered greens, and creatine which i was actually taking a month long break from so i started re using it one week before end of cycle hoping to help bridge and hold gains
I cycled for 4 weeks @ 3per day week 1, 4 per day week 2, 4 per day week 3, 3 per day week 4
I dosed them all at once rather than spread out because I read some other reviews saying this was the way to try plus i wanted to dose all in morning so i wouldnt have trouble sleeping
(so yes i still have leftovers which i will save for later)
over all i gained about 16.9 pounds give or take 2 pounds
overall i dont think i gained much fat really maybe 2-5 pounds tops still very lean
strength went up drasticallly in all lifts as well as endurance, no sides really apart from a slight bumpy rash on my back which dissapeared in 3 days after i applied some creams, and lethargy i did feel quiet tired at points but still forced myself to lift, I will also note for future users is to prehaps stay at 3 per day 4 for me was too much didnt feel too great at that dose and defiantly purchase some on cycle support such as blockage, maybe even run some forma during cycle.
I have kept most of my gains i believe off cycle still looking good weight is the same actually slightly rising off cycle and strength is around the same
use a proper pct it will do you a world of good invest in some forma stanzol and hcgenerate if you can affored it. I noticed forma stanzol helped keep my lethargy at bay whilst on cycle
also try keep your cals clean but plentiful eat eat eat, drink plenty of water due to liver strain, dont drink any alcohol if your not responsible enough to avoid alch during ph dont even order, also you cant use stimulants whilst on cycle because it will give you bad nosebleeds this is due to msten raising your blood pressure so avoid stims and preworkout although ill admid i did use half scoops or just a coffee evey now and then when i thought i needed it (plus your livers could use a break too) and use pwos after cycle to help keep that intensity up
also just a preference to what iv learnt id keep cycles short future cycles will be the 1.2weeks on 2 weeks off 2 weeks on 4-6 weeks off method
I hope my review has been informative
Have a good one guys and happy gains thanks to strongsupplementshop.com too for great service great price and fast shipping even to Australia
- Great muscle gains
good alpha feeling
no sides really
cant use pwos/stims
libito slightly dropped off towards end of cycle but only slightly
- I've been on msten for a week and half and so far it's a mixture of pros and cons and that's why i've given it 3 stars... i was supplementing msten with blockage as a cycle support along with omega-3, multi-vitamins, and BCAAs. The initial response was very fast meaning i started to see results on the 2nd day which was very impressive. I took 2 pills (8mg) for 4 days then went to 3 pills (12mg)... I started to see very problematic side effects which will most likely make me hard stop my cycle today. Most of which seem to be high blood pressure... After taking 2 pills i would start having a fast heart rate along with shortness of breath. Today i have a small internal pain to the left of the heart under the breast. My pulse is around 84 per minute which isn't to bad but other sides are pointing to high blood pressure and i'll verify that today. Other then that side effects were bloating, hypertension, hypersensitivity at times, shrinking of nuts, and increased libido which i wouldnt really call a side effect :P ... On the pro side of things though dispite my personal experience. All my lifts have gone up atleast 15-20 lbs in the last week and half eating very clean and grew approx 2 lbs of dry muscle.
--StrongSupplementShop.com Response: Generally it takes 2 weeks before results are seen. However you have seen nice increases in your strength in a short period of time, but you have experienced sides. Some people are prone to sides more than others. Blockade is the best on cycle support on the market and its as good as it gets. Regardless with all pros people experience increases in blood pressure but these increases subside after the cycle is over. I would definitely reduce your dose and see if that helps reduce the sides, you can still see gains at a lower dose which is better than no gains and if achievable without the sides due to the lowering of the dose in my opinion it would be worth it. If not this may not be the pro for you, either way best of luck to you and thanks for your input.
- more than 6 month(s)
- This is probably my 4th Ph cycle since first discovering ph's in 2009. I've first started light with h-drol, then tried e-stane, then later tried something advanced like the older "spawn" that is no longer found. I must say m-sten is the best I've taken, with serious real results. Spawn gave me similar results but the side effects were terrible. After 3 days of spawn I immediately noticed some gyno. While I still finished the cycle with a ton of on and off cycle support, to this day I have a minor lump under my left nipple. It sucks. Anyway I still am focused to try to push my limit and wanted to find the best ph that I can use with no or little side effects and give me amazing results. The reviews here are what made me buy this. I was excited to try it. I started the cycle to 3 pills a day but since this wasn't my first time at a ph I quickly upped the dosage to 4 pills a day after About 3 days of starting. Anyway on to the real review. I noticed results after about 8 days. My shirts fit on me tighter and I gotten complements almost everywhere i went, especially at work. People wanted to know if I was gaining weight so I knew it was working. I had only been on it a week and only gained 3-4 lbs, probably mostly water weight etc. But let me say I sort of messed up this cycle because of my work schedule so I missed a lot of workout days and didn't eat too healthy. I didn't eat bad bad but I wanted to put just mainly mass anyway so I didn't care much about body fat. Anyway finished the cycle with only a 9lbs gain, incredible power levels, no gyno, incredibly high libido and just a great feeling. In fact the lump under my left nipple almost disappeared when on this cycle oddly enough. It came back after a month off the cycle though. I really wanna do another cycle soon Then another during summer but I have to do more research on this as I'm not sure if it's safe because this ph is strong. Although I am Definitely doing another one. This is the best by far.
- Quickly adds mass, strength, in my case reduced gyno, increases libido and confidence.
- Nothing, it's perfect
- Ok Msten is in the top of the bulking ph for reason, because it works no joke I heard about it and I fell in love on my first week on it 5 lbs nice hard gain like it says by the end of my cycle 20 lbs of gain total, and the best to comes no side effect all, and big thx to the very helpful costumer service on the live chat they send me protocol of use to my email, I stick with the advise of the professional like it says on my email, ok I can write all day about this amazing ph MSTEN and about how great it is , but I'm sure when you guys try it you will understand MORE, good luck all you have to do buy it and use it and see the gain raising that it will surprise the hell otta you :)
- more than 6 month(s)
- Im an avg guy, i just take PH for an added boost, i dont mix with anything else, so i can always tell when something works and what it is that works. Msten works very well. I was thinking i would get more bulk, but its been a very dry ripped effect. I like it as i have added muscle and leaned out any fat. Took about 3 weeks to kick in. The strength gain is very noticable also.
I have bought from many web-sites, Amazon, etc,and many of those sell fake stuff, its best to stick with a place like Strong Supp Shop as they have the real deal.
- Muscle growth
No sides so far
- more than 5 month(s)
- Went from 193 to 205 in body weight !!! went up 40 lbs. on flat bench press in 4 weeks. Also went up on all other exercises as well. Took liver support and pct. Received many compliments on my size.
- Strength, size, and overall mass increase as well as endurance!
- Very effective with low side effects. Has an awesome hardening effect. Can't beat it for the price, although it is definitely under dosed.
- I took Mdrol by CEL in the past and it has since been banned I came back into the PH world and found Msten. Its been on par for what i experienced with Mdrol. Great substitue
- Finished 4 wk cycle. dosed 4 pills all at once w/food within 8 hrs of working out. Horrible diet. Dirty bulking. used mass gainer, creatine, and multivitamins. Gain 10 lbs solid weight. Started at 160 - now 170 dry weight in the morning. Bench went up 25 lbs as well as decline and incline. All other excercises went up also. Hit the gym hard 5 times a week. 1hr -1.5 hr. 1st time prohormone user. This stuff works as advertised definitely will do another cycle. Helped me break through my plateau. Some side effects were laziness, lower back soreness, some acne on my back, and a few rage moments here and there. Nothing that couldn't be handled. Probably would make better gains with better diet.
- Guys.... Msten is some serious stuff! You will def put on some size and see gains really fast. I would highly recommend it... I had no sides at all. Make sure to run a pre-cycle and post cycle to keep those gains!!!
- The serious gains.
- I utilized Msten as part of my training regimen supplementation for a brief 3 week period, however the results were nothing short of spectacular. I used 16 mg for week 1, 16 mg for week 2, 24 mg for the first half of week 3 and 48 mg for the latter half of week 3. Proper PCT was used as well. I gained roughly 14 lbs. of muscle and held onto 12 after PCT.
I decided on Msten after my research, which included reviewing my chemistry notes from college and reading materials from Patrick Arnold and Mike Arnold, led me to conclude that Msten has an anabolic rating of 660 and an anabolic:androgenic ratio of 4:1. This compound is a combination of Superdrol and M1T, though it's slightly closer to M1T in the way it's metabolized and less androgenic than both of it's parent molecules.
Next I'm going to try Mad Man Elite by AAR, which has the Mithras clone that's essentially a legal Pheraplex clone with some secondary Superdrol-esque traits in the way it binds to receptors, and Hexadrone which has the lowest androgenic rating of any known steroid (Yes, lower than Max LMG).
I'm digressing a bit, so my apologies but overall this is a choice you couldn't go wrong with.
- No doubt about it!! This stuff adds muscle size period. Best prohormone that I have used so far.
- Loved it no sides except minor elevated aggression. Went from 185 to 203 on a 4 week cycle with isomass gainer. Ran mg 10/20/30/20 and 4 pills of protex a day now I'm in pct with post cycle 3x . This stuff worked for me just like mdrol in terms of size and strength. In just 4 weeks my Bench went 225x4 to 225x9. 1 rep max bench from 245 to 290. Shrug 315x20 to 405x20. Squat 275x12 to 315x12.
- At around the two week mark I noticed a good size increase in my shoulders and chest. I stopped as not to outgrow my current wardrobe. This product works very well for size increase. When on an effective PH. like Msten, I decrease the amout of weight that I use because I depend on the stuff to do the job. Having trained for over 20 years now I can say that overtraining is The Gigantic problem in bodybuilding. The magazines follow pros on big drugs. Bodybuilding for the general population should be very, very heavy for 30 minute workouts every 5-6 days. Do not believe me? Keep up the "hardgainer" routines and you will never get to your goals. Msten is effective for mass gains.
- I liked this product very clean with no side effects. I ran it for 3 weeks and put six 6 pounds. My strength went up around 10%. I think i will wait a couple months and try again. Next time running it for a complete four week cycle. Overall i liked and was impressed with the product!
- -Good gains and Strength increase
- -Lil tired and some joint pain not much
- more than 1 year(s)
- I ran 5 weeks at 12/16/20/20/12 and stacked it with halodrol. This was my second cycle with msten so I knew what to expect. I'm 6'5 and jumped from 268 to around 280 and increased all my lifts. I had great pumps and vascularity as well as a huge boost in libido with almost no sides, just an increase in aggression. I'll definitely run it again, maybe in a different stack.
- increased libido
animal in and out of the gym
- Picked up a few bottles, for a few of my buddies looking to start their first cycle of pros. 5weeks on, 5weeks pct. Two guys gained 20lbs, the third gained 30lbs in the first 5weeks.
On cycle consisted of: working up to 16mg msten, hcg, blockade, multi, and minimum 3G omega 3s every day. (Start hcg a few days into msten & Stop hcg 10days before msten ends)
PCT: tamoxifen (nolvadex), p6 extreme, multi, blockade, 3g omega 3s
Sides were: mild acne, joint discomfort from RAPID strength gains, minor water retention
- In my third week on cycle and have put on 15 pounds. Strength has gone up about 20 percent on all lifts. And this is on 8mg per day. Everyone is saying or asking what I have been doing due to the fact that every body part has increased in size and this includes my neck. My arms, chest and shoulders have had the biggest gains. I have recommended this product and to utilize it with Dorian Yates workout or something similar.
- After 4 weeks I gained 15 pounds and had great strength gains as well. There were no sides at all . I would recommend this product to anyone who never took a ph before
- I used this product for four weeks and saw some amazing results. It has been about a year since I used a PH and the last one was MDROL. MSTEN produced some great results. I went from 205 to 218 and only lost about four pounds afterwards. However, my mood swings were quite bad and I got a few breakouts on my forehead. Sleepiness was also a side effect. Take a great PCT when off, there are quite a few on this site. With the PCT I have yet to notice a significant decrease in strength. With the Mass Gainer I took, do notice a bit around the mid section. Nothing a month of HIIT can't fix.
- This product definitely did what I wanted it to do. Ran for 5 weeks at a low dosage compared to some- 8/12/12/12/12, but it seemed like plenty for me. Appetite increased. I have been lifting for 11 years and am a hard gainer. This product helped me go from 177 lbs to 187, so 10 lbs of muscle with no fat gain or water retention. I was eating about 3500 calories a day and 240-270 grams of protein, and mostly good carbs and good fats. Side effects weren't too bad, some acne, some lethargy (I added in a 30 minute power nap most days) and maybe a little extra irritability, but these should be expected while taking a potent prohormone. I took with vital labs on cycle and am now on their post cycle, so far it has been almost 2 weeks and I haven't lost any of my gains yet. I would definitely recommend this, and I plan to try Predator Plexx after the summer is over.
- I was stuck on my bench at 445lbs.I spoke with the rep nsmed Ryan and he told me about this product. I've done one cycle 4 a day. Bench at 475lbs. I'm curling 120lb dumbbells. Dont believe me go to paulgaines500 on you t ube. Cant wait for my next cycle I'm sure Ryan has something to go wuth it for me.
- Just finished up my second bottle and very happy with results. I can't say how this compares to other methylsten brands bc this was the first one for me, however I've ran Halo before and androstenedione way back in the day. I wouldn't rate this as potent as the old banned PH's, but I was pretty impressed since I currently look the best I've looked in years. First, a few months back when I decided to get serious again, I ran a 6wk cycle of halodrol with creatine and 150g of whey gainer daily. Hit the gym 3 days a week hard on a good split and put on 10lbs of muscle. Did PCT, then started my 7 week cycle of MSTEN with same other supps and blew up another 11 lbs. So, as a hardgainer, getting these types of gains is more than thrilling. 21 lbs of muscle on a narrow frame is a lot for me. I will say I ran this hard- 12 20 24 24 24 24 24.lol not supposed to run it that strong, but sides were minimal and did heavy cycle assist as well. Didn't really "kick in" until the end of the 2nd week, but once it did the gains kept coming after every single trip to the gym. For the price, was a great purchase. Can't wait till another 2 months when I can step it up to a good stack!